SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Firstly I want to state that this topic may well have been well trodden territory for this forum, that being said I can't really find good chains discussing this at length, if you feel this is just dragging up discussions that have already been put to bed, feel free to link me to those threads.

I've spent the past year or so trying to understand infidelity and, more specifically, reconciliation. It's a topic that fascinates me precisely because it's so contrary to my own nature. I've struggled to grasp how someone could live with the reality of a cheating partner and, for a long time, my main question was simple: why do some people reconcile while others slam the door shut? I've come to understand that factors like character, circumstances, and genuine remorse all play a part, and I feel I have a solid grasp on those ideas. I feel I am coming to the end of journey on this topic. What happened to me happen a long time ago. I'm almost ready to put this all to bed.

But one question continued to elude me, one I’ve tiptoed around in previous posts for fear of causing offense. My central question is this: Why do large parts of society hate those who reconcile?

This is a recurring theme I've seen both in my personal life and even more prevalently online. The disgust toward those who reconcile is so strong that it often leads to victim-shaming.

I remember a real-life example from my own friend group. A friend was in a toxic relationship, and when her boyfriend cheated, the outpouring of support was incredible. We were her impromptu therapists, letting her cry on our shoulders. Then, she took him back. I vividly remember her friends warning her against it with the classic "once a cheater, always a cheater" line. Many of them lost a degree of respect for her.

When he cheated a second time, the reaction was far more negative. While no one was cruel, the general attitude was, "Well, what did you expect?" People had been genuinely angry with her for even considering taking him back the first time, and this time, there was an outright shouting down of any further attempts at reconciliation.

Why is this such a common reaction? Isn't it possible that she could have fixed the relationship and gone on to live happily ever after? Or, on the flip side, isn't it also possible that if she had dumped him, her next partner could have been the one to cheat on her? So, is this societal reaction wholly rational? I suppose the answer is both yes and no. It’s rational because her partner demonstrated a clear capacity to cheat, which surely trumps any theoretical chance of a future partner cheating. But it's irrational because we simply can’t know the future.

I believe the societal hatred for reconciliation is a complex blend of psychological biases and a deep-seated need for justice. My personal theory is that a lot of it comes from the fundamental attribution error, which is a psychological bias that makes us attribute a person’s behavior to their character rather than to the situation. It’s easier for people to believe that a cheating partner is fundamentally a bad person rather than someone who made a mistake. When the betrayed person stays, it disrupts this simple narrative. Society’s message is that your partner's actions are part of who they are, and by staying, you are accepting a flawed person.

The laws of averages also seem to play a role. The anger stems from a protective impulse, a desire to "wake up" the betrayed party so they don't experience this pain again. While we may consciously understand that one-time lapses in judgment can happen, statistics seem to show that those who cheat are likely to cheat again. The anger and shaming are a desperate attempt to prevent the betrayed person from becoming another negative statistic.

There's also a powerful desire for justice at play. Infidelity is often seen as a moral crime, and society expects the "bad guy" (the cheater) to be punished by losing the relationship. When reconciliation happens, it's viewed as the cheater "getting away with it," which a just-minded public cannot stand. This is why the anger scales with the "crime." A one-night stand might be seen as a lapse in judgment, but a multi-year affair is seen as a calculated betrayal. The greater the crime, the more severe the expected punishment, and the more a reconciling person is shamed for failing to deliver it.

This also ties into the just-world hypothesis, which is the belief that people get what they deserve. When a betrayed person reconciles, it breaks this worldview. To reconcile this cognitive dissonance, it’s easier for an observer to blame the victim for their choice to stay, framing them as "weak" or "foolish." This provides a sense of psychological safety—a feeling that "this wouldn't happen to me because I would never be so stupid."

I've personally tried to work on my own reactions. No matter how much I try to understand reconciliation and acknowledge that it can lead to the best possible life for the individuals in question my initial, fleeting thoughts are still "get some self-respect" or "you deserve better." It's a bit like what some people describe as unconscious racism, where a person might clutch their bag more tightly when passing a person of a different race and then feel shame for it. It's not a perfect analogy, but it highlights how deeply ingrained these societal scripts are.

There's a gendered element as well. While I think it cuts both ways, I do feel men are viewed more harshly for considering reconciliation. My fiancée, for example, is very anti-cheating, and when a TV show, movie, or celebrity gossip involves a woman taking back a cheating spouse, her response is often, "What an idiot, she deserves it next time." While I know she doesn't actively mean that, it shows that this view isn’t exclusive to one gender.

I suppose my goal in posing these questions is to better understand these societal views and, hopefully, to help reduce my own knee-jerk disgust for people who are just trying to build a happy life. I believe this disgust is what continues to pull me into reading these threads. It evokes a strong response from me and that response is in a way, addictive. If I can understand that. Perhaps I can let go.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 10:46 AM, Thursday, September 18th]

How about this:

People see "reconcilers" as normalizing cheating behavior, making it more likely to happen to them.

I had a relationship 20 years ago. He cheated. I left him and got over him the moment I found out. He was a serial cheater. I was young, fairly attractive, needed no one. Especially not a pos like him. I also felt extremely proud of my self!!!
Met my husband. Became truly happy, less cynical, slowly but surely trusted him , got married, had two beautiful kids, him as a nurturing husband and father of our babies. He cheated after 16 years (because he thought I didn’t care- basically insecurities ). Returned to my original cynical viewpoints but with a twist. The magic is gone from my perceptions about love, there’s no perfect relationship, I wouldn’t count on finding again "the luuuv of my life ". Wh was the love of my life in the most wholesome sense. What he did was self serving and unbelievably cruel, but he makes amends everyday. He still is my great partner and a great father to the most precious people in my life, our kids. I hope we make it to see our babies have their babies, I hope we make it to see the world together. Still after 3years I become angry, bitter, sad…just less and less…
Another thing that played a big role in my decision was the fact that my parents got a divorce when I was just a baby. my father cheated on my mother and our family split in more ways than I can count. And guess what, they are together again the last three years. After 42 years and countless changes they are together. Yes this situation made me strong, yes I had to overcome many other things that happened to me but for once, it feels truly normal.
If my husband cheats again I ve made a promise to myself as to what I will do. I hope he won’t but if he does I ll have to follow through, for my sake.
Oh and by the way, I used to judge exactly as you describe. Nowadays I think that cheating should be punishable by law. … crime prevention my friend 😂 crime prevention… maybe I ll get over this phase too….

I am not sure if I feel a societal hate for people who reconcile. I tend to perceive it as being judgmental over what some people claim is weakness or accepting less than they deserve.

I think there is a breed of cheaters who will never reform, and that is the image people have when it comes to cheating.

They can’t know or understand the true nature of all cheating, it’s a generalization. They can’t see or understand the strength it actually takes to reconcile a relationship.

So many things in our society are simply projections, I don’t think most people really know what they will do when faced with the situation. I also tend to think a lot of people have been cheated on and have their own biases from their own situation that can influence the way they want to protect others from what they have been through.

I think it’s okay people hate cheating. I have done it and I hate cheating. What’s not okay is to assume the person who has been betrayed is weak, or that we always know what’s in their best interest. I do not feel anyone knows what’s best for someone else. Sometimes the person needs the lessons from their own experience rather than following another person’s advice. Other times people really do reconcile and can have a higher state of understanding and depth in their marriage.

Cheating is abhorrent, and I wish no one had to be on the end of the betrayed. However, I tend to believe that our struggles can either keep us in place, set us back, or it can grow us in ways that can lead to a higher version of ourselves. Sometimes it can do all three as we move through a process.

What I mean by that is something I see as a parent. My kids are all married or headed in that direction. One of them has a spouse that I have earmarked concerns over. The spouse checks some boxes that I find of concern for potential cheating in the future. I could see my kid going straight to divorce in that instance. I don’t think she could even entertain, and probably should not entertain reconciliation. Another one of my kids smothers the shit out of their spouse. And while I do not believe their spouse has any inclination to cheat, I just do not think the dynamics will wear well ten years from now.I have no way to correct or counteract any of that. So I don’t worry about it. I have to believe they will be strengthened by their own circumstances and will make adjustments and grow and go in to have triumphs and wisdom from it all. It’s not that I never talk to them about relationships, I always have. But honestly, any concern I have falls on deaf ears. I have learned to leave things alone I am not in control of and have faith they will be able to acclimate and rise above whatever they face in life.

What I am getting at is I believe that people tend to get riled up about what other people do, thinking they know better than the person in it. And our need to try and control that is about us and not about them. It’s normal as a human to feel that struggle when you believe you might be able to save someone from heartache or pain.

I truly believe those of us who can’t live and let live get pretty beat up in the world because 1) adults do not want to be controlled by what you think they should do 2) the more resistance they give the more we tend to desire to convince them 3) we should focus on the relationship we have with them and trust them to handle their decisions and other relationships. Otherwise we will feel the repercussions in the relationship we have with them.

In other words, even though I think it comes from a good place, a lot of the hate comes from not being able to control something and/or thinking we know better than they do about what they need. We do that in many circumstances.

I am in a situation now where I have a long and dear friend who is in an emotionally abusive relationship. I was there for her at first, but she keeps going back. He is the most controlling person I have ever met. No cheating from him, he was in a 20 year marriage and was cheated on. He has done things to control her such as moved out in the middle of the day while at work to show he he is in charge, if she wants to go to see us for dinner he breaks up with her telling her he doesn’t want to be with someone who goes out partying with her girlfriends (we go to regular restaurants, most of us are in happy long term relationships. No one has more than a cocktail, it’s not like girls night out at the club), he will block her on his phone routinely. They take dance lessons and when he went to the bathroom he came back to find her in a full class of people practicing the dance with the instructor. He broke up with her since she wants to dance with other guys.

Oh, and by the way this woman is the most loyal woman you would ever meet and often to her own detriment.

It’s just a very bad situation. I can’t imagine it getting better. I have put distance in our friendship because I can’t watch it go on and because she insists he come with us when we go out and I don’t want to be around him. So I am not at all saying that we can’t know it’s not good for someone, we can. At the same time, I can’t help but believe this is in her path to overcome, I can’t do it for her. I think it’s things like this people come it with the tendency to judge that she is weak, or blind, or whatever. I don’t see her this way. I see her as having a very predictable reaction in a trauma bond and it’s my hope she finds opportunity in it to figure out her worth.

I have many friends who are judging her and putting her down and I do not find that productive either, it’s a lot of misplaced energy. And it will likely end their friendship with her because of their desire to control her, have her follow their advice is higher than being able to empathize with where she is in the moment. I don’t think they are wrong and I am right either, but I am explaining the answer to your question. It’s not easy to navigate when the people are close friends.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:25 PM, Thursday, September 18th]

Interesting topic.

I don’t think people hate those of us who reconcile as much as they are judgmental about us being "losers". I used to be in the same camp of not reconciling however, I was young and very set in my thoughts.

As the saying goes, you can’t really understand unless you’ve walked a mile in those shoes.

After my first very serious boyfriend cheated on me and we did reconcile, I learned a very valuable lesson. When we got back together, I had a number of things that needed to change in order for the relationship to survive. interestingly enough one of those things was that hanging out at the local bar every single weekend until 3 AM was no longer an option.

One Sunday morning, my brother and I were in the kitchen and he said he saw the boyfriend last night. Of course I was surprised because up until midnight I was with my boyfriend so I asked him where he saw him and his response was "at the bar". My brother at the time was working in a restaurant so I knew he didn’t get to the bar until at least 2 AM

Right then I knew the relationship was over not because he cheated but because he lied and made promises he had no intention of keeping. I started to see that he was willing to say anything to get me to stay in the relationship w/ no intention of living up to those promises.

For some people cheating is more important than monogamy, honesty, etc.

While the betrayed spouse or partner may be willing to give that person a chance, in some cases, it’s just a matter of time before they cheat again. Unfortunately, you just don’t know if your spouse or partner falls into that camp. I think cheaters who refuse therapy are often prone to repeating their bad choices (not just cheating).

SOOLERS regarding your friend that took back the cheater and her friends were less than empathetic, perhaps they saw a number of red flags and just knew he wasn’t a good guy. They weren’t basing their opinions in his cheating, but on more than that. Just a guess however.

We all make decisions that seem like the best decision at the time. If we had a crystal ball only to see the future lol.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:24 PM, Thursday, September 18th]

I think the societal attitude toward R depends on:

The relationship at hand (marriage or not). Taking back a cheater in the dating phase without kids is super crazy IMO. They failed the test and there is nothing to save. Just my belief. I know people can also reconcile in these cases, I just don't think it's worth the effort.

The quality of the relationship and the motivations of the cheater. Is the cheater a physical abuser on top of cheating? Is the relationship otherwise apparently good? Is the cheater a serial cheater? Did they look for the affair first or did they "fall" into the affair via the slippery slope? Is the cheater generally a liar or otherwise trustworthy? The better the relationship is on the face of it, and the more the cheating is "out of character" the less society would look down on forgiveness. Almost in the same way the BS has to decide if R is worth, society will make a judgment as to whether or not R makes sense to them.

Cultural factors around infidelity (e.g. religiosity of the social circle). Lots of people feel *pressured* to forgive depending on the culture they are immersed in. I think this is particularly true of "more conservative" religions, especially a wife forgiving her husband may be the expected behavior.

I think my wife would have "gotten away with it" more if she left/didn't join me for a shot at R. She never would have had to face the issues with her thinking that led to her giving herself permission to cheat. She could have blamed it on a cold husband and a weak marriage and surely she isn't the flawed one. She would have gotten half, plus alimony, plus child support. Facing accountability within the marriage I think can lead to a lot more "consequence" than divorce.

There is a certainly a strong and vocal segment of the population that is hard lined against R. I don't think it is universal to people's circumstances.

If my wife cheats again I won't need the same amount of support I needed the first time. I also wouldn't expect the same type of sympathy. To some degree when you accept the risk of the repeat offender over the risk of someone that hasn't cheated you are under a different circumstance as to the quality of the relationship I described above.

I'm not ripping on people that choose R after DDay 2+, but I think even on this forum you get more of a split among those in favor of R as possible doubting the likelihood of success.

It's a complicated issue but I think people just hate cheaters. I do myself. At least I'm honest about it. In general I despise cheaters. Even when I understand perhaps why they're cheating. It's a fundamental betrayal in your most intimate relationship and it should be regarded as such. By society. After all.....nobody names their kids JUDAS. I never met a kid named JUDAS. There's something to that. There is a Catholic Saint Jude....but he's a different guy, not JUDAS.

We have confused feelings about this because we're taught a lot of Christian type ideas about not hating the sinner or forgiving people and things that don't work for most humans. They don't. That's why there are no kids named Judas. LOLOLOLOL!!!! There are some things you really don't forgive in your gut. Things don't really go back to the way they were. How can they? That's WHY you should never cheat if you want to maintain your marriage, your marriage will NOT be the same even if it continues, after you cheat. People don't like to hear that, but it's true for most people.

We may tolerate that famous people like performers or politicians cheat but....it's always a negative. And it's a stain. What is Bill Clinton, whom I don't really think is the worst person in the world, but what is he remembered for? Cheating on Hillary. It lasts.

So this is a fundamental human thing, being betrayed, look at how many dramas guys like Shakespeare wrote about this theme, directly and indirectly. We need to trust our clan and our spouse is the closest person in our clan. If it's a wife, it might affect whether our children are biologically ours. Or if a man, whether there might be other children out there who will take from ours....ala Abraham and Sarah - she forced him to kick Hagar and her son OUT INTO THE DESERT TO DIE. That is harsh, and it wasn't even cheating in their society. So I think a lot of this is biological hard wiring that affects our brains too.

And we're not honest about how we feel or what we expect from marriage either. Marriage is a way to have a family, to procreate the next generation, to build resources, to have a spouse to help with practical and not practical things...it's the best solution to building society and communities. That's on the practical level. But we also infuse it with so many romantic feelings that may be have trouble lasting for decades esp when we all get old and unappealing. Chris Hemsworth is not fighting his way to my door step. So there's a lot invested here, and a lot more that our particular society has invested through movies, songs, books, etc, emphasizing a kind of romance that maybe really can't last as depicted. Maybe we set ourselves up for failure. And often we romanticize adultery IN movies, songs, etc. Me and Mrs. Jones, anyone? We want to push sex, but not the consequences which is....broken marriage and broken family.

Why are people viewed as weak when they reconcile? Because we like people who take action, who take a stand, who don't put up with shit, and someone who reconciles is seen as doing all that. You're taking back a betrayer. A liar. Someone who deliberately deceived you, maybe abandoned your kids, etc. People like the decisive, punitive, definitive action of divorce - take that you rotten SOB!!!! And if someone cheats again...well, most of us, including me, would expect that. I don't honestly think most people change. I don't. I know they can, but they don't. I think what recon is for most people is just accepting a lower level of relationship because of necessity. Yeah, I have some feelings for this person, we have kids together, we have property, it would be hard finding someone else at this age, I might as well just try to make the best of it. Accommodation is never seen as heroic. And we do want heroes even in the domestic sphere. Someone who reconciles is seen as volunteering to continue to eat the shit sandwich, and that is often what it turns out to be because the recidivism rate is pretty high, esp with a serial cheater. The cheater has to fix his or her own problems and then see if they can win back the spouse. Nothing can be assumed or should be. You broke it....you fix it.

We all wish we were brave and heroic and shining and stood up to lies and injustice and forged our own way, etc, but the reality is it's easier to make the best out of a bad situation if you can. Personally I don't think the sting of betrayal ever completely goes away for most people. I no longer trust my husband and never will again. I just don't. Under the right circumstances I think he could betray me again, perhaps in a different way. I live with this because I don't really have options. Right now...I don't have the money or health to do otherwise. It's a practical decision. Practical decisions don't shine. They're kind of....despicable, actually, but most of us do it in some way. Heroes are rare.

I suppose my goal in posing these questions is to better understand these societal views and, hopefully, to help reduce my own knee-jerk disgust for people who are just trying to build a happy life. I believe this disgust is what continues to pull me into reading these threads. It evokes a strong response from me and that response is in a way, addictive. If I can understand that. Perhaps I can let go.

I have felt this sting here and elsewhere. I find myself having to fight the "you are a fool to reconcile " comments from taking root in my mind.

Thank you for this paragraph. It means more to me than you could ever possibly imagine.

Also consider.....the punishment for adultery in the Bible, and in current societies, especially fundamentalist Islam, is stoning. This generally only seems to apply to women - married women - which is obviously wrong on the face of it, but....why stoning? Why not chop off their heads or hang them or make them take poison, etc. Why a capital crime anyway?

There aren't a lot of sins listed in Exodus, that Moses brought down from the mountain. Even the Noahide laws for the Gentiles are even fewer - only 7 of those. The Jews in Leviticus made a lot more rules - over 600 I believe - for themselves as a community, but the basic laws are very few. Have no God but me, don't take my name in vain, celebrate my Sabbath, honor your parents (to preserve social order and to have them taken care of in old age presumably), don't murder, don't steal, don't lie (bear false witness actually which is a SOCIAL THING - rather than a private lie...false witness is more what you would have in a legal proceeding so it's a communal sin), don't commit adultery...

Consider most of these are COMMUNAL sins - not just again individuals but sins that would affect the functioning of a community. If you bear false witness that could affect a trial, stealing can break down a community, murder obviously does. But so does adultery. It breaks up marriages and possibly the marriage of the AP too. It affects children, extended families, neighbors. IT IS A COMMUNAL SIN. That's why, IMO, it's punished communally. Everyone gets to throw a rock because if people were to all cheat on each other, there would be no trust, no cohesion in the community. No one would know whose kids are whose. So the punishment is that everyone throws a rock because adultery is a secret sin that can destroy a small community....and adversely affect a larger one.

We need to re-consider and understand how we see adultery, and what it's actual affects are, because it's a lot worse than we really want to believe, as a society. It's incredibly destructive to inviduals....to groups....and to society as a whole.
And we DO want to see it punished.

BPs do deserve better and should examine how much self respect they have, and whether their actions match with it. WPs don’t "deserve" second (or third, or, god forbid, fourth) chances, even if they are given them by their BPs, which is why it’s important for WPs to be grateful for more chances and to behave accordingly.

What I mean to say is, BPs should not accept further shitty treatment and betrayal, even if they give their WPs another chance to do better. WPs must be made to understand where the boundaries are and abide by them, because that’s what the BPs deserve. And if the WPs don’t think their BPs deserve fidelity and proper treatment… they need to be kicked to the curb so the BPs can stop suffering.

Some interesting thoughts have been discussed here, and I suppose hatred was the wrong term when I initially posed my question. I agree that it's not hatred. It is a form of judgment by definition, but from reading comments, discussing it in real life, and my own personal experiences, I think disgust is a more accurate description of what you often see.

I also think this disgust is more visceral than other forms of judgment. For example, if someone was being poorly treated at work by a boss who was making their life hell, I'm sure many would recommend they do something, like changing jobs, reporting them to HR, or confronting them directly. However, I'm certain you wouldn't see the level of disgust you do when it comes to a person deciding to stay with a cheater.

It's interesting that a common theme also seems to be that people wouldn't give a second chance, which is something I understand theoretically. Ultimately, though, that just means you differ with these anti R people by a factor of one chance. Those who say "never give a chance" would differ from someone who gives one chance.

I think the following point from @Formerpeopleperson has some validity from my perspective:

People see "reconcilers" as normalizing cheating behavior, making it more likely to happen to them.

That seems to ring true to me.

@The1stWife's

friend who took back the cheater and her friends were less than empathetic, perhaps they saw a number of red flags and just knew he wasn't a good guy. They weren't basing their opinions on his cheating, but on more than that. Just a guess, however.

I'm not saying these factors don't play into that specific circumstance, but I can tell you I've hated the same sort of reaction many times where the relationship seemed excellent outside of the infidelity, yet the response was the same.

@This0is0Fine

Facing accountability within the marriage I think can lead to a lot more "consequence" than divorce.

I'd be very interested if you could expand on this point. Let's suppose I was of my old mindset—the one I'm trying to move away from—and I say: what consequences has she faced? She got to have her affair and keep her cozy life, family intact, and financial stability. She got to have her "bit on the side," and you've actively worked with her to improve her main relationship.
How would you argue that she hasn't won?

Ultimately, I thank you all for your insight. I'm not sure I feel I've got to the bottom of this but maybe I never will.

I'd be very interested if you could expand on this point. Let's suppose I was of my old mindset—the one I'm trying to move away from—and I say: what consequences has she faced? She got to have her affair and keep her cozy life, family intact, and financial stability. She got to have her "bit on the side," and you've actively worked with her to improve her main relationship.

How would you argue that she hasn't won?

In Marriage 2.0 she does still have a very functionally good and cozy life. What doesn't she have in 2.0 that she did in 1.0? She doesn't have a husband that puts her and her happiness first. She doesn't have a husband that says, "I'll love you forever" or "I'll never leave you". She doesn't have a husband that says "Happy Wife, Happy Life". I care about what she thinks and I accept her influence, but I prioritize my needs and desires more now than I ever did before she cheated.

I've sort of talked about this before, but I'm not bludgeoning her with the A or making her pay penance forever. I haven't tried to rebalance chores/family responsibilities to where I do less. Our kids have always been the top priority, and keep the family together is a win for both of us. But let's say I have some limited amount of free time over a weekend, and my choices are help her with something for her hobby, or pursue my own hobby, I'm going to choose my hobby 8/10 times. It would have been reverse before the A.

I'd like to think the R is also something of a win-win even if she gets part of the win. The most important thing about it isn't the justice or accountability. The most important thing about it, is that it is better for me than divorce.

I feel no need to cut off my nose to spite my face.

EDIT:
Just to revisit this answer, I'd also like to paint a picture of the alternative reality.

We divorce. We have joint custody. She receives half of our assets, my retirement account is signficantly larger than hers. She receives alimony, likely around 30% of my salary. Child support is a maybe depending on how the custody works. She is still in my life by she can frame me as the intolerable asshole that she only cheated on because I was such a dick bag. Of course she left me, and she never "really" cheated. And gosh darnit doesn't she deserve to be happy? She feels free and open to find a new relationship.

I am hurt. I don't want to date. I spend 2-5 years healing before getting back out there only to be stuck in the modern hellscape of online dating.

What do I get in this scenario? How is this winning for me? Extra free time when the kids are out of the house? Meh. I already told you I've reprioritized my free time in marriage 2.0. I really think R is better for me than D would have been.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 4:16 PM, Friday, September 19th]

Generally speaking, the keyboard warriors who shun reconcilers have probably never been cheated on before, or if they were, it was while they were dating (not married and/or with kids).

But contrary to popular opinion, I think we on SI can agree that--in reality-- reconciliation is the default position, divorce. No matter how egregious the cheater's behavior, and no matter how little remorse they demonstrate, almost every single BS in the wake of discovery wants to know: "How can I fix this? How can we get back to normal as soon as possible?" Even if that "normal" is a living hell by any objective standard.

I remember a real-life example from my own friend group. A friend was in a toxic relationship, and when her boyfriend cheated, the outpouring of support was incredible. We were her impromptu therapists, letting her cry on our shoulders. Then, she took him back. I vividly remember her friends warning her against it with the classic "once a cheater, always a cheater" line. Many of them lost a degree of respect for her.

When he cheated a second time, the reaction was far more negative. While no one was cruel, the general attitude was, "Well, what did you expect?" People had been genuinely angry with her for even considering taking him back the first time, and this time, there was an outright shouting down of any further attempts at reconciliation.

I've been on both sides of this. It's not that people are angry at the friend for reconciling in principle; they're distressed at a friend for going back to what is clear to them to be a destructive and abusive situation, and disregarding advice. Further, providing someone with constant support and serving as someone's impromptu therapist can be time-consuming and emotional draining for close family and friends. So to put all that work in to try to help someone, only for them to go back to the situation that brought them misery, is a painful experience for the support group.

I didn't quite understand this after my first Dday. My attitude was that why were my friends and family taking it so personally that I chose to take my husband back? I know now that it's because they cared about me and they loved me; they could see plainly that he had done none of the work to deserve a second chance and that he hadn't really been a good husband even before the cheating. They had nursed me back to health after being burned, only to watch me go back into the fire.

I did experience less comfort and less sympathy after Dday #2. In retrospect, I now realize that this wasn't just due to the fact that I had chosen to reconcile but because the people who I had relied on after Dday-- perhaps overly so--needed to maintain some emotional distance from my situation for their own sanity and self-preservation.

For this reason, my advice to a newly betrayed who is considering reconciliation (which is about 99.9% of BSs) is to get a good IC and maybe lean on no more than 2 people for support and advice. Infidelity shouldn't be kept a secret-- because you need people who are firmly in your corner to have your back-- but once your personal life and your choices are opened up to a "committee", the more judgment you're going to feel about whatever choice you make.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:19 PM, Friday, September 19th]

** Member to Member **

1) I don't know that people hate people who reconcile. My bet is that no one has enough data to know if that's true or not. The best one can do is perhaps to know what one's circle thinks, but even that is uncertain.

I write that in light of A) many people who have been certain they'd dump a cheater who find themselves wanting to R, B) the many people who think they'll use an A to exit a marriage and then decide they want to stay, and C) the many people who treat the same approach to infidelity one way WRT some people and a different way WRT other people.

I see 2 conflicting views of BSes. Some people hold people who R in contempt; some people see people who D as deficient.

2) I would think logic would tell you that you're trying to draw conclusions from way too little data. How are you missing that?

3) I’m glad you’re aiming to expand your ideas. I will again write that I don’t think you know yourself as well as you think you do.

I wonder if your sense of disgust is hiding some fear – fear caused by self-talk you adopted when you were much younger and less knowledgeable about life.

In 1973- ’74, my W told me that a friend, a fellow grad student, married,was fucking some guy. It started at a conference where W and friend were roommates and continued back home, where friend fucked the guy in her office. We knew her H.

I immediately became sick to my stomach. On the surface, that looks like disgust, but I swear it was mixed with gut-wrenching fear. My bet is that fear came from 2 main sources: 1) fear of being betrayed, and 2) fear of dealing with society’s view of me, whatever stay/go choice I made.

When I actually had to make a choice, I took comfort in my belief that whatever I did, some people would condemn me, and others would praise. Society’s inconsistent views freed me – as it frees everybody - to heed the lyrics of Rick Nelson’s Garden Party.

4) I can understand telling oneself that they hate cheaters. I can’t understand actually believing that they always put their hate into action. We simply can’t know much of what other people do when they’re out of our sight.

Consider any person and any couple you come across in your day to day life. Who of them is a WS or BS? How would you know?

There’s a photo of W & I, from the back, sitting on a bench overlooking Lake Tahoe. We look close emotionally and physically. There isn’t a hint of infidelity in the photo.

It was taken at a g2g (get-2-gether) for SIers. I remember another attendee – a drop-dead gorgeous man. He was a BS. He told us he never had any confidence with women. If he stood next to the young Paul Newman or Robert Redford, women who liked dark hair would probably choose this guy over both Newman and Redford.

You just can’t know about other people. You can’t even know yourself, because people so often hide their motivations from themselves.

5) As long as the WS thinks the extra-M sex was a win when everything is considered, R probably can't happen. I'm fine with a WS accepting that the sex felt good. I'm fine with a WS saying that they enjoyed the intrigue while it was happening. But IMO, R requires the WS to understand that the pleasures of the A were not worth the loss of integrity they put themself through.

IOW, a WS isn't a good candidate for R unless they know they lost much more than they gained by cheating.

6) TBH and explicit, I think the keyboard warriors who condemn R and people who R have not processed the pain they feel. They're stuck. I wish they understood they didn't have to stay stuck.

I say that because I think the only healthy way to view other BSes and WSes is to honor their autonomy and provide support whatever they choose. IOW and IMO, the goal of SI is to help people find their way to bliss, despite the trauma of betrayal.

I hope that people are happy with their own choice irrespective of what others choose. Someone else's resolution has no effect on mine or yours. I see the fact that some people thrive after R, and some people trive after D, as very positive.

When I was new to this, the possibility of a good life no matter which I chose was empowering. I hate to project, but I would urge that empowerment on everyone who is touched by infidelity. Further, if you don't find that empowering, I'd urge you to get help.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:41 PM, Friday, September 19th]

"When you're 20 you care what everyone thinks, when you're 40 you stop caring what everyone thinks, when you're 60 you realize no one was ever thinking about you in the first place." — anonymous (used to be attributed to Winston Churchill, now the ‘net isn’t so sure)

Out in the real world I haven’t met anyone who hates people who have reconciled. I think the original post in the thread continues to make some strong assumptions.

Self-proclaimed guru Dr. Wayne Dyer had a saying I liked, "What other people think of me is none of my business."

I can’t say I understand why anyone would expend any energy with concern one way or the other about my rebuilt marriage.

I can say I grew up very black and white, with a stone cold logic string and with absolute certainty that I would walk away if anyone ever cheated on me.

My wife was equally certain, that’s why she originally chose to take the secret of her A with a long time family friend to her grave.

Humans fail every single day in a myriad of ways, and if their failure goes against their own moral standards and they learn from it and improve from it, that’s a good thing.

That said, I don’t believe anyone who chooses to cheat necessarily deserves another opportunity, I’m just glad I did offer a last chance.

I also think any WS with a conscience doesn’t get away with anything, they carry the weight of hurting a person they love until the end of time. At least that’s the case here at home. Ten years after her confession, my wife isn’t close to forgiving herself. We’re working on it, I hope she eventually does forgive herself.

I find no shame in offering grace and understanding. I find no shame in forgiving my wife for her worst days.

I more than held up my end of the vows, and I find honor in that. I kept my little family unified, and have two really amazing, successful adult sons who reflect the very best of me and my wife.

I think it takes a tremendous amount of strength to heal from infidelity, regardless of the path we take.

In my case, forgiveness has been transcendent.

By letting the past be the past, by letting my wife grow into the best possible version of herself has brought us the relationship we originally signed up for and then some.

I do understand why some people hang on to the negative emotions, I did that a lot the first half of my life. There is agency, and individual empowerment I learned along the way. I can’t control anyone else, but I can choose how I respond to adversity. It doesn’t change reality, I just get to decide how I overcome the trauma of it all.

I can hate what happened to me and love the flawed person in front of me. It took a long time to get there, I will grant that.

I’m not unique here, I was inspired by many members here who found ways to mend the damage done. I suppose it did help me that SI was founded by a couple that chose R. SI was unique as the one website that focused on WS accountability, which helped us quite a bit. I don’t think my R could have started without my wife owning all of her shitty choices.

All of that said, I’m not here to sell my result.

I only ever hope any of us who have been betrayed can find some peace, whether one divorces or chooses to stay.

I do share my experience and if it helps one other person out there, I will have paid it forward a tiny bit.

I also think any WS with a conscience doesn’t get away with anything, they carry the weight of hurting a person they love until the end of time. At least that’s the case here at home.

This is the case for us as well. My wife is extremely remorseful and beating herself up every day for her terrible choices. When I look at her I don't think of her as someone who got off scot-free or necessarily "won." She truly feels horrible about this. I can see it on her face, in her eyes, and her demeanor everyday.

I'm not saying that lets her off the hook or anything, but she didn't walk away from this unscathed either.

@Sisoon

The central point of my argument is not about the statistical prevalence of negative reactions to reconciliation, but simply that these reactions exist. You can see this for yourself just by reading through this thread, where other users acknowledge it. The debate isn't whether it's 20% or 60% of people who feel this way; the point is that these strong, negative responses, whether they are "hate," "disgust," or "moral outrage," are a real and observable phenomenon. My original assertion stands: people who reconcile often receive plenty of negative responses.

Your own quotes even support this:

"I see 2 conflicting views of BSes. Some people hold people who R in contempt; some people see people who D as deficient."

"TBH and explicit, I think the keyboard warriors who condemn R and people who R have not processed the pain they feel. They're stuck. I wish they understood they didn't have to stay stuck."

You've suggested that I'm drawing conclusions from "way too little data." While I agree that no one has enough data for a robust statistical overview, this misses the point entirely. The existence of a strong negative reaction is the subject of inquiry, not its statistical frequency. Statistics don't change the fundamental question: if X amount of people show strong negative reactions towards those who reconcile, then why do they feel this way? The pursuit of understanding a behavior doesn't require a census of its prevalence.

As you put it yourself:

"I don't know that people hate people who reconcile. My bet is that no one has enough data to know if that's true or not. The best one can do is perhaps to know what one's circle thinks, but even that is uncertain."

"I would think logic would tell you that you're trying to draw conclusions from way too little data. How are you missing that?"

You've made a claim about me personally, stating, "I will again write that I don’t think you know yourself as well as you think you do." While I am open to such statements, they lack validity without any supporting evidence or interpretation of my writings. If you have a basis for this, I'm happy to hear it.

Similarly, the idea that my personal "sense of disgust is hiding some fear" is an interesting psychological take, but it doesn't address the broader societal response. The existence of this collective reaction is undeniable. Just visit a forum like the survivinginfidelity page on Reddit, and you'll find overwhelming evidence in the top-voted comments. My personal feelings don't change the fact that this is a phenomenon.

It's interesting that the arguments against my view seem to contradict each other. One perspective suggests that those who hold a negative view haven't been in this situation themselves, while another, like yours, claims that the view comes from people who have been cheated on and haven't processed their pain correctly. Perhaps both are true, and the reasons for this negative reaction are multifaceted.

@BluerThanBlue

But contrary to popular opinion, I think we on SI can agree that--in reality-- reconciliation is the default position, divorce. No matter how egregious the cheater's behavior, and no matter how little remorse they demonstrate, almost every single BS in the wake of discovery wants to know: "How can I fix this? How can we get back to normal as soon as possible?" Even if that "normal" is a living hell by any objective standard.

You may well be correct in this claim, I'm trying to avoid over arching claims like this in general though, as I don't have the statistics here, especially where I feel it's hard to get concrete data. I would tend to agree from what I've heard anecdotally though. It would appear that most people just want things to return to normal, especially if they were happy prior to the adultery. Often even if they weren't wholly. People despise change. How successfully that can be achieved is an entirely different discussion. Of course there is however another large percent of people who immediately want divorce in the face of this, I'm sure nearly everything in-between too.

@OldWounds

I also think any WS with a conscience doesn’t get away with anything, they carry the weight of hurting a person they love until the end of time. At least that’s the case here at home. Ten years after her confession, my wife isn’t close to forgiving herself. We’re working on it, I hope she eventually does forgive herself.

This may well be true but this won't appease the observers. I suppose people are seeking justice. One way or another. Someone who commits a crime may well feel truly awful they did it but that wouldn't be enough for those reading about it in the paper. They want to see concrete tangible forms of justice. I'm sorry to say, that 'R' simply doesn't offer that sort of thing. Really if you are seeking justice, the only paths you can take are public exposure, ending the relationship and in some cases the division of martial assets.

However, the best explanation I've encountered for why people are viewed as "weak" when they reconcile comes from Bondjanesbond:

Why are people viewed as weak when they reconcile? Because we like people who take action, who take a stand, who don't put up with shit, and someone who reconciles is seen as doing all that. You're taking back a betrayer. A liar. Someone who deliberately deceived you, maybe abandoned your kids, etc. People like the decisive, punitive, definitive action of divorce - take that you rotten SOB!!!! And if someone cheats again...

We all wish we were brave and heroic and shining and stood up to lies and injustice and forged our own way, etc, but the reality is it's easier to make the best out of a bad situation if you can. Personally I don't think the sting of betrayal ever completely goes away for most people. I no longer trust my husband and never will again. I just don't. Under the right circumstances I think he could betray me again, perhaps in a different way. I live with this because I don't really have options. Right now...I don't have the money or health to do otherwise. It's a practical decision. Practical decisions don't shine. They're kind of....despicable, actually, but most of us do it in some way. Heroes are rare.

This might be about as concrete response I'm going to get to this. Maybe we just want a hero. Maybe we just want to see the villain punished. Maybe it's as simple as that. After all, the most quoted thread in the history of this form was a man who took decisive action and didn't back down.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 11:59 AM, Monday, September 22nd]

You ask a deep question. Behind it is even deeper question…

Why are people judgmental?

People being judgmental really says everything about them and very little about you.

Two thoughts are stuck in my mind about being judgmental that I heard or read:

1. Be curious, not judgmental (from the show Ted Lasso)
2. Being judgmental is similar to an act of violence. (Eckhard Tolle, I butchered the quote)