SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m am sorry for the pain and suffering you are facing right now.

I’m answer to your question, yes your cheating wife may be in love with the other man (OM) right now.

But remember affairs are built in fantasy. They are not real because cheaters are not dealing in the real world. The one filled with bills and illness and parents and kids and pets and grocery shopping etc.

In my opinion affairs are an escape. An escape from reality. The every day "boring" life and the person they married who is "terrible". They will use any means to justify an affair. Even blaming the betrayed spouse.

My H was kicking me to the curb during his midlife crisis affair. She was 20+ years younger and the complete opposite of what he would be interested in. She wasn’t pretty or in good shape or anything special. She was needy, clingy & a drama queen who liked to display her assets by wearing too small shirts so everything hung out.

On dday2 after months of false Reconciliation I was left w/ no choice but to D him. Suddenly the affair is over. He’s ended it. (Fortunately we have happily reconciled).

But very often the affair is just a game to cheaters. Once you "set your wife free" the OM may disappear. He’s in it for the drama and fun — he doesn’t want a real relationship. He doesn’t want all the responsibility of a relationship out in the open.

And then the cheating spouse comes crawling back b/c there is nowhere else to go.

Nothing in your marriage will change unless you change. I learned that the hard way. But I can tell you I went from being a doormat to a badass.

My H is now afraid I will D him. He knows I will no longer tolerate any lying, disrespect, betrayal, not sticking to your word etc.

You will survive this. We all do. Even if your marriage fails I believe you can still be happy — because you will choose to be happy.

What helped me most was professional counseling. Maybe you want to consider it.

There’s something called "limerence" which people experiencing it often confuse for love. It’s not, though, it’s more like an obsession. It’s worth googling, it make help you make sense of what’s going on with her. But to The1stWife’s point, it amounts to feeling "in love" with the idea of a person, not the actual person. That’s why so many relationships that start as affairs fail. At some point, they realize that the person isn’t who they thought they were.

Go for exposure if you’re not ready for the Sandwich Speech. Hire a PI to find the OBS if you can’t do it online. Get in touch with her ASAP.

More extreme: consider reporting them to HR. Whatever they’re doing is against company policies for sure, and they’re probably abusing expense accounts to prosecute an affair. That’ll make her mad no doubt, but it also might be the cold shower of reality that she needs.

Thank you for that insight into love versus the idea of love. I was also about to ask about whether affairs typically turn into something long term once exposed versus the other half never knowing. But both of you addressed that for me in advance, so again - thank you.

I took my kids today and visited my Mom and brother in Oklahoma. I had made it a point to break the news to my mom last night b/c I didn't want to have to do it in person and/or in front of my kids. That convo was of course brutal and embarrassing. After having sobbed like a baby for 30 or so minutes I felt relief. The comfort and compassion coming from someone who loves you unconditionally is priceless. So when we arrived today, the visit was all about the kids and their grandma and uncle loving on them like they normally do and without any distractions. A perfect visit and I felt somewhat normal for the first time this week. Hopefully that narrative will continue as the night goes on.

I have read everyone's feedback multiple times and while it hurts so deeply, I do u/s that my M is very likely over. I haven't yet asked my WS to give up the affair (not sure if I will) b/c a) I can't take another dagger to the heart and b) I am sure that I already know her answer based on the choices she's made thus far, her unwillingness to go to counseling with me, her lack of want to, to make changes or put in the work, and total disregard for my feelings.

I'm now at a point where I desperately need to figure things out - start a roadmap in a way. I will be consulting with a physician on Monday to see if I can get something to help w/the anxiety. So I'm good there. I don't find myself depressed, just super anxious and hurting, so I don't think I need anti-depressants, but we'll see what happens. My mom gave me some light dose prescription pills to help w/sleep, of which I will try tonight as I'm running on fumes. As for the "something else" as it pertains to the M, I am at a crossroad that I can't bear to look at or think about. Do I simply file to set the tone that I'm not playing around? Do I agree to the separation to ease into the transition that eventually leads to divorce? Of course, my WS would love the idea of a separation so that she can continue the affair while not feeling guilty, looking like the bad guy or taking any accountability. That's the only reason why I hate the idea of agreeing - I don't want her to continue winning. She's going to go into the separation with a loaded deck - having someone already in the wings waiting. I, however, will be entering separation alone, with nobody to confide in. With nobody to lean on. I fear that the anticipated loneliness and potential for depression to ultimately set in at some point. I can and will focus on my body and mind - through the gym and counseling, but what about all of the other downtime? How do I even meet people? I'm 49 and virtually everyone I know is a parent to one of my kids' friends and of course, still married to their respective spouses. I, will be the odd man out. I am too old to be starting over. In fact, I don't even want to think about starting over, dating or even talking to anyone else at this point. I'm pulling the cart before the horse here, I know I am. My mind is just all over the place. I will focus on the rest of the night and go from there. I still have 4 more days of my WS being away with business w/her co-worker that I can't stop thinking about.

There are "rules" about dating after divorce. My question is…why can’t you? Old song lyric, whatever gets you through the night. The only reason I am posting this is your sentence mentioning this. Of course you are not going to date tonight, or next week, or, or, or. But you might have a friend, or friends to be with. Don’t jump feet first but don’t shut the door. You need a hand to hold. It could be strangers, or your moms. Whatever gets you through the night.

And why do you think your life is over? Have you paid any attention to the soccer/football visitors here? We all, American and foreigners, found out how much fun is out there, how many good, decent people are out there. Go find some. Start walking, hiking, biking, golfing, gardening, anything. You are only limited by your self imposed rules.

She has broken your heart, but with time you can mend it. So get some help from your dr for anxiety. Get some sleep. Eat healthy. And stay away from alcohol and other drugs.

I going to post from my experience. I’m hoping it helps you.

You need to be prepared for the potential outcome of the conversation I think you need to have.

Option A - she’s a stone cold person who doesn’t care she’s hurting you. Most likely will continue to cheat.

Option B - she’s going to deny "anything is going on" and play the liar game while she continues he’s to cheat.

Option C - she needs time to get her exit strategy in place so will lie and tell you she wants to Reconcile.

Option D - she wants to Reconcile but will do minimal work and expects you to rug sweep and "move forward" and "not live in the past" meaning there is NO DISCUSSION about it whatsoever.

Option E - she actually is remorseful and wants to Reconcile and does the work.

If YOU are prepared for all of those options it will help you mentally and emotionally. Knowing your next steps based on the situation (discussion or no discussion) will help you in many ways.

However being in limbo (where you are now) is torture for you. Your life is hanging in the balance and you are dealing with someone who has the attitude that "they deserve to be happy" and justifies the cheating.

It’s exactly where I was for months. Too many months. I held down the fort - kids, house, job etc. while my husband paraded his affair practically in front of me. He didn’t care I was suffering, crying every day, losing weight I couldn’t afford to lose etc. In his mind he "deserved to be happy" no matter who he hurt.

If you see the conversation with your cheating wife is going nowhere, then end it. If she’s lying to you (and you know it) you need to stop trying and be brave enough to say that you were expecting her to be honest with you, but there is no point in continuing the conversation if she’s just going to lie.

I know how hard this is. But I can tell you I survived it. How? By having an exit strategy just in case. I didn’t want to D but I also had to make a choice to put me & kids first. I could not continue to be lied to, disrespected, on an emotional rollercoaster with him wanting a D, then changing his mind, etc.

Dday2 when I found out he was still cheating while I thought we were Reconciling was a game changer. He saw a side of me I’m certain he wish he never did. I did the hard 180. I refused to speak to him. I kicked him to the curb. I was done!

He still thought he was calling the shots after Dday2. He still thought he could lie and manipulate me. One word was the game changer.

The word No. I told him no. And I left the room. I was no longer discussing anything with him. Suddenly I held all the cards and he had no clue what that meant. Or what to do. But he knew he was on his own and I was no longer concerned about him.

I survived the brink of D because I had an excellent counselor who helped me prepare for D. Even he realized I was in a no-win situation and I could not stay married to a liar and cheater.

What I learned is I am stronger than I think. I used to think I was soooo lucky to have such a great guy — now I realize he was lucky to have me.

I am living a good life — happily reconciled. But I know I can be happy with him or without him. Because I choose to put myself first - not him, not the marriage. I went from a doormat for 25 years to somewhat of a badass.

And I still don’t do his laundry or run his errands or the gazillon other things I used to do for him. And he’s perfectly ok with that.

beetrain6 —

You’re 72–96 hours in. Right now your nervous system is still in free-fall. Everything you’re feeling (chest tightness, no sleep, nausea, crying at the gym, the urge to either confront hard or shut down completely) is normal. It does not mean you’re weak or that the marriage is automatically doomed. It means you just got hit by a truck.

A few hard truths that matter more than comfort right now:

1. Her affair is her choice. Your drinking history, the insecurity jabs, the uneven early love, the family-visit friction — none of those things forced her to open an emotional (and possibly physical) relationship with a co-worker, hide it, then turn around and make you the villain for discovering it. She is doing classic blame-shifting + gaslighting. Do not let that rewrite the story in your head.

2. She is currently on a business trip with the AP. That is not ambiguous. She is prioritizing the affair partner over any chance of protecting what remains of the marriage or the kids’ stability. That tells you a lot about where her head and heart actually are right now.

3. She has already told you she wants a separation so she can "find someone who truly loves her." She is not confused. She is exit-planning while still living under your roof and using your shared life as cover.

What to do in the next 7–10 days (while she’s still gone and right after she returns)

- See the doctor Monday like you planned. Get something for the acute anxiety and sleep. Running on fumes makes every decision worse.
- Attorney consult this week. Not because you have to file tomorrow, but because you need to know your rights, the state laws on separation vs. divorce, temporary custody, and what "leaving the marital home" actually does to your position. Knowledge removes some of the panic.
- When she gets home, do not beg, do not "process," do not pick-me dance. Keep interactions short, civil, and focused on logistics and the kids. The 180 (or a soft version of it) is your friend right now. You are no longer available for the roommate-with-benefits role while she keeps the AP on the side.
- Decide in advance what your non-negotiables are. Typical ones that actually work: full no-contact with the AP (job change if necessary), complete honesty/disclosure, individual counseling for her that is specifically about her choices (not couples counseling yet), and a hard timeline. If she won’t meet those, then separation is the only clean next step.
- Document everything quietly. Dates, the phone evidence you already saw, the 42-minute call after the confrontation, her statements. You may never need it, but if you do, you’ll be glad you have it.

You’re 49 with three kids. Starting over feels impossible right now. Most people in your exact spot say the same thing in week one. Many of them look back later and realize the loneliness of a dead marriage was worse than the temporary loneliness of leaving it. You’re not required to decide that this week. You are required to stop letting her set the entire frame of the conversation ("this is your fault, I’m the victim of your imperfect love").

Take care of the kids’ routines. Take care of your body. Get the legal and medical pieces in place. The rest will still be there when the acute shock starts to lift in a few weeks.

You’re not crazy and you’re not overreacting. You’re standing in the middle of a house fire and trying to figure out which door still works. One day at a time is enough right now.

I think the last thing in the world you should agree to is a separation. You know that. There’s no benefit to you there, and all the benefit in the world for her.

Just to add to Sharkman’s list: find the APs wife. Hire a PI if you have to. Try to get the information to her.

The other thing you can do is let your WW know that you’re not going to lie to your children (or anyone else for that matter) about why you’re getting a divorce.

Im very sorry you find yourself here. There is no pain like marital treason. As to stress, it is second only to death of a spouse/loved one according to a well known stress analysis. Your system is getting flooded with cortisol which is exhausting. You do well to take this stress level very seriously and fortify your body and mind against it. Gotta stop with the alcohol. Its just exacerbating the depression. Binge on healthy habits, supplements, exercise, anything that helps bleed the stress and strengthens you physically and mentally. BTW, try the "Calm" app to help with sleep.

As others have said, whatever is in your WW that allowed her to do this, is broken/twisted and she is now off chasing a mirage to try and fill what is missing in her. Chances are high that this will end badly for her.

I hope you can find your strength now and do what needs to be done to bolster your person with every possible means of positive and healthy reinforcement. Start small and work your way back to being centered and healthy.

Sadly, I agree that the "marriage" is most probably over based on your description. So so painful but NOT the end of the world. Start the legal process and get out in front of this.

Listen, there are therapists, support groups, sites like this (I didnt have access to SI and like sites when my then-wife had an affair with my supposed best friend) where you can avail yourself of the support you need. It can help. If you isolate, it will be harder. I know. I too was pretty much a loner, came from a chaotic and abusive home, and had few friends when the only two closest people in the world betrayed me. I get it.

Start clawing your way back. Breath deep. A lot. It helps clear the head.

Keep posting here. It is a great place to find a lot of what you need which is straight talk wrapped in care and empathy.

Strength to you sir.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 5:54 PM, Sunday, August 23rd]

I am holding out hope that once you talk to your wife and then she talks to the OM (other man) that she will come to her senses and realize you could have a future together.

Not that you want yo be her back up plan or second choice, but sometimes reality needs to hit before the realization sets in that the cheater has run out of options and MR WONDERFUL isn’t so wonderful after all.

I am so very sorry for the experience you are going through. It is time to take back your agency and realize you are a man a value. You trusted that she has held you as a person of value but it is clear now she does not.

As much as it hurts, realize she is not who you thought she was.

I am so glad you told your mother. Now pick some other close people to tell to build up your support system.

One big think to take back your agency, find the other spouse and contact her immediately. Do not tell your wife you are doing it.

Do NOT fear your wife getting mad or angry. Just that fact you are saying that shows me she has been controlling this marriage even if through subtle manipulation. It is time to learn to be the man.

Protect your heart.
Hold yourself in high value.
Do not let her abuse you and control you.

It is now time your actions are wholly driven by principal and not by response to her manipulation or emotions. Let her deal with the outcome. Do not be moved by her level of discomfort.

Actions - Consequences...that is the nature of life. You have been shielding her. NO MORE.

Rise above this friend. Show your children that you are a man who will not be pushed around. You are a man who deserves loyalty and love. A divorce may be the right answer for you and your children

Ask God for wisdom and guidance. 🙏

Sunday update:
- Talked to the WW and let her know just how devastating this has been to me, how gut wrenching it was to read all of the text messages just to have zero ability to confront the situation before she left for her work trip, a trip w/the OM nonetheless. How unbearable these last 3 days have been, how I haven't been able to eat/sleep/think, how debilitating I've been feeling, etc. Went on and on for 15 or so minutes, mainly me crying, her responding a bit, but mainly listening while I cont'd to weep and try my best to convey how I was feeling and how crushed I am. As I said, she mainly listened. The times she did respond, she countered my moments of pain with comments like "I went through the same thing (crying in front of the kids)" and "it's awful, I know (gut wrenching feelings etc)." Her moments of pain were of course attached to my inadequacies and flaws that I described in the OP.
She never apologized for the A , not once. Never took accountability, not once. Never said she regretted (I didn't ask, but I think we all know the answer) what now is known to be an emotional relationship that eventually turned into a sexual one - and likely still is (assuming of course as I didn't point blank ask her). That was very telling to me, but more importantly, how hurtful it was...not in the exact moment, but hours later when I started replaying the convo in my head over and over. She did say she was sorry for hurting me, but only b/c of what I read in the texts as "I wasn't supposed to see them." Not the A however. Post convo, she did text me about an hour later asking if I was okay, in which I responded, "no."

The other thing you can do is let your WW know that you’re not going to lie to your children (or anyone else for that matter) about why you’re getting a divorce.

I quoted that specifically, b/c she flat out told me that if I "use the kids against me (her)," she'd "fucking kill me." Exact words. I had long talks w/my daughter (15) and son (13) prior to this call. They know about just about everything except for the fact that this A has now since turned sexual. I am on the fence as to whether I tell them or not. I certainly would never purposely ask them to do anything for me over the WW, nor take sides, and I'd like them to learn this information on their own as I'm pretty positive that my WW will never admit to it. My daughter is astute to the situation, more so than I ever thought she'd be. She provided a lot of great insight as to what she's observed and heard over the past 18 or so months. It was eye opening actually. She sees me as the one who is constantly trying while her mother (WW) puts no effort in. She sees her mother becoming defensive when I ask questions, accusatory or otherwise, rather than trying to make me feel at ease. She sees me as causing "some" (likely understating it for my sake) big problems/issues at the house, but none that should cause a marriage to end or for one person to stop trying to make it work (again, likely sugar coating it for me). At the end of the convo, my daughter told me that she'd prefer that we split up. I never thought that I'd hear her say that as I've been fighting to keep our M alive, mainly in order to save the family from splitting up. Hearing this really made me take a few steps back and start rethinking things, which I've been doing the majority of this morning.

My WW continues to send text messages to our group chat like nothing happened and in such a flippant demeanor. "Good morning my babies," and "Good Night My Loves." This actually pisses me off to no end. I've wanted to remove myself from the group chat so badly, but I haven chosen not to so far.

I thought that I'd somehow be able to change my WW, but am starting to realize that she's been gone emotionally from this relationship for a very long time. I am also finally starting to see that she stopped caring a long time ago, all the while I've been sitting back hoping that one day she'd see how much this M, and her, means to me. I continue to fight for us, but now see that I'm the only one swinging a fist. I feel like such a fool. How does my daughter have better insight into our M than I do?!?

I have zero optimism that things get any better than they are today (with the M). She comes home Wednesday and my stomach churns with pain just thinking about it. What do I say? What do I do when she comes through the door? Last thing I want to do is to start an argument with our kids not having seen her in a full week. If I am short/brief or dismissive, it'll start a fight and/or she'll shut down or it will turn even worse. I expect to be walking on eggshells all night until Thursday rolls around and we have the house to ourselves. I dread tonight, tomorrow, tuesday, most of all Wednesday night and of course, what my future will hold and/or look like.

Start separating your finances and your lives. When she gets home you greyrock her and only talk if it has to do with the kids. She has no remorse and just spent a trip with her AP (whether she wil admit to it or not). With her current attitude towards her affair she isn’t a candidate for reconciliation. When I caught my wife she immediately went into marriage and family saving mode and went no contact and quit the job without me asking otherwise we would be divorced right now. She had to show you she deserves a chance at reconciliation. Have her served divorce papers, if that doesn’t wake her out of the affair fog then nothing will and you’ll know divorce is the best option. Sorry you are going through this.

If your consult with the lawyer happens before she comes home ask about moving all of her crap out of the marital bedroom.

You’re not using the kids against her. You’re just not going to lie on her behalf. I think there’s a world of difference.

She has no remorse for cheating. Well, then let her make her own case. You’re going to say something like:

Kids. As you are aware, Mom and I are in a marital crisis because I have discovered that she is having an affair with a man named NAME HERE. We have been discussing how to move on with the hope of fixing things, but because she’s unwilling to end contact with NAME, I have reached the conclusion that I’m not comfortable with remaining married to her, and have decided to divorce. It’s not what I wanted, but that is my decision. This isn’t decided in a hurry nor in anger. However, no matter how I might feel she wronged me, she is and will always be your mom and needs your support in moving forward. Mom and I will deal with our marital issues, but I expect you to support mom and to do so you don’t have to condone her affair or attempt to punish her for it, or take sides with either me or her. After all she has done for you as your mom, she deserves your support.

Something like that. Specifically tell them not to take sides. You don’t need to tell them the affair is physical, that’s too much in my opinion.

I think you should get a VAR, a voice activated recorder, and have it on your person when she gets back. There’s a long, sad tradition of men like you getting falsely accused of domestic violence and abuse. Given your WW’s predisposition and threats to "kill you", you need to be able to defend yourself. Maybe put up cameras in your house if you have time.

Get your lawyer ready, as I believe she’s not going to be "amicable." You’re crying on the phone because she’s cheating and she’s saying, "what about me, you didn’t want to stay at my sister’s."

Learn the 180. Don’t ask her questions. Don’t ask her how she’s doing, or how the trip went, or if she wants to be married. Be polite if she asks you questions but don’t offer much. If she wants to fight, walk away. Keep that VAR on you.

I’m so sorry this was how she behaved.

I agree with moving her things to another place for her to sleep.

Since she had threatened you (regarding what your children know) I suggest you have a voice activated recorder on you at all times. Just to protect yourself from a false domestic violence charge from her. If you have cameras in your home - that can help you. If not, consider getting a few just to protect yourself.

When she sees you starting to separate from her and asserting yourself, she will get angry. Cheaters like to control the situation. They want to know they can still lie and cheat and manipulate the betrayed do their lives are affected as little as possible.

If she sends you angry texts / do not respond. From here on in everything you say and do will be used against you. The less said the better. Be extra careful about putting things in writing. She can claim you are abusive and kids shouldn’t be with you blah blah blah and if you have things in writing, you look like the bad guy.

Judges and courts don’t care about cheaters. Unless you are in a state in the US that allows you to sue the OM (there is 1 or 2). Then again the other betrayed wife could sue your wife too. Not a win-win situation.

Most states are no/fault D. Come to the table, hammer out an agreement and move on. That’s how it’s played. Lawyers are costly so if you go down the Divorce path, try to find some common ground and settle it as quickly (and fairly) as possible.

My brother, I will be quick with this reply.

You have outlined here that she has lied to you, cheated on you, had sex with someone else, continues to have sex with someone else, has consistently asked for a separation, does not answer or respond to phone calls or text messages when she is with the other man because she is "asleep" or didn't hear it, does not apologize to you for what she has done and for what it is doing to you, does not take accountability, blames you, etc...

It is time for you to take the power back and start making some decisions for yourself. I know all too well how it feels to cry to your cheating spouse telling them how hurt you are when they don't even care because their mind is on getting dick from the affair partner. I wish I had done the following:

Stop begging your wayward spouse to explain things, to be sorry, to love you, or to choose you. She should be choosing you and chasing you and apologizing to you and begging you not to leave HER all on her own because she realizes that losing you forever is a very real possibility. Take a stand and draw a line in the sand. Start making preparations for a life without her because you will not tolerate being second choice as a backup to her affair partner. You are her HUSBAND. You should not have to convince her to want you. If she wants a separation, give her what she wants.

Let the light shine on this affair. Drag it out into the open. Let them have what they want, which is each other. She is no prize if she can act like this. And he isn't either. Right now their affair and their sex is exciting and illicit and forbidden. Let the new guy deal with the reality of everyday life with her, of having step kids, of her attitude, of having to navigate stressful situations and conversations with her. See how long that lasts. See how long they are lovey dovey with each other and sending romantic songs and banging each other. Let them see each other for who they really are. They deserve each other. Let her go be with him. That is what she is actually showing that she wants right now anyway.

Respect yourself enough to stay away from alcohol, work on yourself, eat healthy, go to the gym, drink plenty of water, try your best to get plenty of rest if you can, stay on a routine schedule, make decisions that get you out of infidelity with this woman no matter how you feel about her. If you have any chance of saving this marriage you have to be willing to lose it and show her that you are serious about walking away from her. That might shock her into reality. She might even respect you more for it. She won't respect you crying and begging and doing the pick me dance of please pick me over the other guy.

Anyway, I have been down this road. I was with my ex-wife for 24 years. And when she left I put a gun in my mouth and called the suicide hotline four times. Now I don't even think about her. You will get through this. The only way of having a chance to keep her is by letting her go. Whether she truly does the hard work to stay and fix things is up to her. You can't make her do anything. The only thing you can control is yourself. This is a shit sandwich that no one ever expects to be served by their partner let alone have to eat it.